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Interview with Jurgen

This interview was originally conducted by the Astral Forum, which unfortunately ceased after a vicious hacking attack. Lets hope this fine website will soon spring back to life.

Question: How did you first become interested in the concept of multidimensional reality?

Jurgen: During OOBEs I began to notice that each place had a distinct energy imprint, which I found at first hard to explain. In the very early days, remember it was in the early seventies when I first started projecting and very little was written about it, I simply thought when leaving my body I travelled ghostlike through the physical dimension. Shortly after that I noticed, what is now frequently reported by most people who practice OOBEs, that the environment you project from doesn't quite look like the place you project into, with things having been moved around, furniture missing or added to etc. I concluded that I had actually projected into a copy of my bedroom. This also applied to other places I visited, places I knew and loved, they had changed, sometimes significantly, yet without compromising the "feel" of the place. I quickly realised that there were counterparts to our world, not just one but multiples, each counterpart on a higher vibrational level, progressively changing from the one beneath it, so that in the end there were barely any similarities to the physical one. The only thing that hadn't changed was its unique feeling signature. I began to realise that this principle applied to everything in existence. Everything had a "soul", for want of a better word, with not just one, but several different layers, layers of energy, which corresponded to layered worlds, stretching right to the point of origin where it is no more than a sound or an arrangement of sounds.

Question: Do you believe that OOBE proves life after death and why?

Jurgen: To me it does, but I am aware that there are people who had the experiences to whom it doesn't prove anything. It is a subjective experience which cannot be proven yet does not require proof to most experiencers I would say. To me the certainty came when I visited my mother who died in 1996, and other "dead" relatives who I met later during OBEs. I watched my mother develop from the woman as I knew her, to a young "teenager" who was keen to explore her new found freedom and experiment with her afterlife in a way that was creative, amusing and entertaining. Throughout all this and all the changes in appearance she still retained her identity by which I related to her. Quite recently she bluntly told me that I should stop thinking of her in terms of her being my mother. At first I was shocked but I soon realised that this woman was slowly realising her full potential as a creative human being to whom, I could relate to on a completely new level. Yes, OOBEs to me prove much more than just life continuing after death, but the opportunity to unfold into a much fuller life.

Question: Have you ever communicated with a dead person in your out of body experiences?

Jurgen: I communicate a lot with dead people during OBEs. It has become the main source of information for me. Often, when the opportunity of an OOBE presents itself, I see myself as a reporter interviewing people in much the same way as a journalist would interview people attending a certain event. This is a crucial aspect of obtaining information about the next dimensional realities. Not only do you get information via the interviewees experience, but you get the complete picture. By talking to them, which is mostly done via thought anyway, you can actually watch their background played out in front of you like a movie without having to ask many questions.

I also found that the people I talked to rarely showed objection to being approached and on occasion I even established quite intensive bonds in record time, simply by relating to them on quite personal levels, getting their "picture" and being able to help them. Some of the people i encounter are not even dead, they are simply asleep, but I still deal with them and can help. Once I found myself in a flat of a gay couple on a higher level above a flower and ceramic shop belonging to a lady. I received a clear picture of the shop owner who wasn't even there and I knew everything about the men before we even spoke. They had a massive model railway stretching across two rooms of their flat. (The attention to detail of their project by the way was phenomenal, like the real thing but on a smaller scale, a level of detail which physical model makers can only dream of). I was fascinated to learn that just by looking at their model railway I knew everything about its creators. On the sideboard were a set of beautiful ceramics which came from the lady running the shop below their flat. Just by looking at the pot I knew an awful lot about the lady and her relationship to these two men. Communicating with people during OOBEs can open the doors to a completely new level of experience.

Question: What other techniques beside OOBE do you use to explore multidimensional reality?

Jurgen: Quite frankly, I don't pursue OOBE techniques for their own sake. OOBEs still impose limitations. Right from the beginning when I had a spontaneous and very profound enlightenment experience in 1972 (forward to 4:30) I saw that event as the beacon in my life, the focal point which would give meaning to my life. OOBEs were not it. They manifested later, which I saw as a byproduct of my meditation, and my meditation mainly consisted of showing my respect and gratitude to what had appeared in my life on that incredible day. I read OOBEs as a way of consciousness explaining to me the scope of a greater reality. Occasionally, for example when I am asked to give a talk on OBEs, I set an intent the night before to have an OBE, purely so the talk is more authentic and the experience is still fresh in my mind. So intent, arising from a sincere need or desire, is often enough to trigger an OOBE.

Rather than spending time generating OOBEs I prefer to focus my attention on the "Being State", a state free of intent, but focused on "Stillness". I find this far more meaningful and rewarding. Occasionally that can result in an OOBE state, which can simply be used to deepen the meditation leading to some interesting results, frequently turning into very exalted states of consciousness. Compared to this ordinary OOBEs can seem insignificant.

Question: What made you decide to write a book "Multidimensional Man?" What is the book about?

Jurgen: The book came about when I dug out my old journals and started reading through them. Until then I just recorded my experiences and never looked at them again. When I read through them for the first time, I discovered there was some narrative, a teaching narrative, which I had never really been aware off. Consciousness had been using the medium of OOBEs to communicate to me the nature of our greater reality. I thought my children might be interested in my journals, but not in their present format. It was too messy. Some of my notes were on scraps of paper and totally disorganised, so I decided to type them out neatly. I then discovered a publish-on-demand resource on the web and I learned that rather than printing them out on lots of A4 sheets of paper they could print it out as a book for less than £10. Being a commercial illustrator I designed a cover and hey presto I had a book. I showed it to my wife and she strongly suggested that it needed  editing. Until then it was just a neater way of keeping notes. After editing it suddenly had became a book and all I needed to do was to tick a box to sell it on Amazon. That's were I left it, not worrying any further about it. Gradually it seeped through as a resource to other people.

In the book I used my experiences, which are very graphic and often quite detailed, to illustrate the nature of our multidimensional reality. Being a professional artist and illustrator I focus attention on my environment, observe and study it. The off shoot with the experience was that during OOBEs this kind of attention can lead to a state of super lucidity or hyper waking consciousness. This in turn allowed me a greater scope in exploration and memory retention. Some of these events created such powerful memory imprints, that I was able to go back and look at other aspects of the experience later during meditation. Perhaps it could be compared to having a holiday home and when you return from your holiday you can still recall other details you thought you had forgotten or only paid random attention to.

This kind of awareness, the attention to the Present, is part of meditation which spills over into everyday or everynight life. So the book is also about awareness and how this awareness can take us into the deeper states of consciousness and to our ultimate realisation, which forms the final chapter of the book. (Multidimensional Man)

Question (via forum): Could you give a hind, advice, suggestion about meditation. How do you go about it?

Jurgen: I think the first thing with all meditation is to find the technique which suits you most, but the most important thing is TO STICK WITH IT. The reason being is that you are programming your brain to go down a certain route and you align the neural network of your brain. It is a bit like creating a path through high grass to get to your cottage in the middle of a field. If you keep changing your path you'll always have to keep treading the grass down again which is laborious and when you return to the previous path the grass will have already overgrown your path so you'll have to start again. So STICK TO YOUR TECHNIQUE and do it regularly!

Once the neural network is conditioned to your meditation it should take you only minutes or even seconds to get into the deep state. In the end your consciousness picks you up and it does the meditation for you.

The other thing to remember during meditation is you are not trying to get anywhere, but you ARE ALREADY HERE.

If your technique is to focus on the light for example, don't see the light as something to focus on which is separate, but experience that YOU ALREADY ARE THE LIGHT.

Meditation is not about making progress or getting anywhere, meditation is about waking up and becoming aware of what is. And what is is that you are the light, you are the mantra, you are unified consciousness, you are enlightened.

everybody else to make up their own mind. Convincing others would be like convincing someone that water is wet, it's pointless. Sooner or later everybody will find out. The great benefit of finding out for yourself now whilst still alive of course is that it removes a large part of our existential fears, which many people would naturally benefit from. Scientific proof of life after death of course won't remove those fears; only experience does that not theory or beliefs. So scientific proof is in a way quite pointless.

Question: What was your first OOBE like? Did it happen spontaneously, or did you induce it yourself?

Jurgen: My first OOBE came totally out of the blue. I had the occasional lucid dream before then, but they were just interesting. This was life changing in its profoundness. I was actually standing in front of my mother's house, nothing at all like a dream, but super-sized physical reality, for which I had not explanation, theory or concept. My first thought was that maybe I had some strange medical condition, perhaps a brain tumour, but for that the experience was simply too real. There were no books at that time about it in the German language and it was only when I came to  England three months later that I found books by authors such as Muldoon and Carrington, Oliver Fox and much later Robert Monroe. Initially I did not see the possible link between my meditation practice and the experience and I was keen to replicate the experience. I found that feeling a little homesick came to my aid because it stoked the desire component necessary for OOBE inductions. I frequently projected to my mother's house in Germany.

Question: What advice could you give to beginners who struggle to achieve their first OOBE?

Jurgen: Not really being an OOBE practitioner as such, I would much rather encourage people to meditate. Meditation can take you far beyond any OOBE state and can be far more rewarding. Meditation can teach you that You are Consciousness and everything else is an image, little more than a projection or an illusion. So why hanker after the illusion when you can have the real thing? Awareness of the greater consciousness is the next step up.  OOBEs take you from the physical to the non-physical. Awareness of the greater reality through meditation can take you from the non-physical to a super reality, your true home, the seat of your innermost self and identity. This "homecoming" is often accompanied by intense joy, bliss, even ecstasy and the profound realisation of who and what we truly are. OOBEs simply don't deliver on that scale although they can be an important first step.

Question: What is the main discovery you've made during the years of exploration of the "unknown?"

Jurgen: That in our physical life we only ever see the tip of the tip of the iceberg. Our greater reality is awe-inspiringly immense, magnificent. If we all knew this we would live completely different lives. We would not do the things to each other and to our world we do at present. I have learned that in comparison to what our true potentials as a species are we are little more than slug worms rising from the mud. We are so ignorant of our greater reality that it is simply embarrassing and shameful. But this is now beginning to change. Each one of us exploring our greater realities and communicating it to others is chipping away at the cocoon which enshrines our true nature. Very soon it will become as obvious as the discovery that the world is a sphere. Until then we will have to keep on with the pioneering work, explore, share our observations and build up a consensus which is proven as scientific reality by the statistical weight of the observations of the many.

Question: In your countless travels, have you ever found any evidence for the existence of "God" or any other higher intelligence?

Jurgen: It was a spontaneous experience of a greater reality that sent me on my way initially. But some OOBEs provided the launch ramp into much higher states of consciousness which I documented in the last chapter of my book "Multidimensional Man". I've never felt comfortable with the word "God" and I try to avoid it. I prefer the word consciousness which embraces all, even the physical, so there is no separation between me and some "otherness" which people very often perceive God to be.

To me what people may term God may be the same thing I term "Awareness", or I sometimes refer to it as the "Silent Companion", an awareness of a simple living reality which makes its presence felt the moment I open my eyes in the morning. It feels like a serene stillness which forms the backdrop to everything I experience. It is not accessed, it is simply there, all the time. The reason many of us don't see it is simply because we are constantly interrupted in our experience of it by the tiresome chatter of our inner commentator, which continually filters the world around us in relation to an illusionary idea of what we think we are. The moment the chatter stops we see reality as it is not as we want it to be. All debate stops and we simply live in abundant awareness of reality in its sublime essence. Every moment, even if it contains apparent repeated content, is a new experience. So to me God is an experience of a consistent "Newness". There no longer are repetitions. The everyday journey to work becomes a new journey every day. So in this context any belief in God is just another idea which has little to do with the reality of it.

Question: What other authors do you find inspiring? If you were to recommend a couple of books that can change one's life, what would they be?

Jurgen: I have to be honest here. I don't derive my inspiration from books. As an artist I tend to rely more on direct contact with reality and the synchronisities and beauty it can offer. Of course that doesn't mean we shouldn't look at the insights of other people, but what is inspirational to me may be a bore to others and what was inspirational to me a year ago sometimes no longer inspires. Sometimes you pick up a book which people rave about and then find that it leaves you stone cold. The mind is like a grazing sheep, it moves from pasture to pasture. Some authors though have a knack of showing us the greenest grass. Eckart Tolle can have this effect for some with regard to where we need to focus attention. I like work by fellow researcher, who offer a fresh approach and a new angle. One such book I am reading right now is  Fred Aardema's "Explorations in Consciousness". I like to have my assumptions put into question and when people come from a different direction as he does as a clinical researcher that can only be positive for our learning. I am sure there are many more authors in this genre worth mentioning, but I am not a great reader. So my suggestion is keep on the lookout for new pastures, take nothing for granted, keep learning. You are on an infinite journey.

Question: Are you planning to write more books in the future?

Jurgen: At the moment I am interested in the "mechanics" of the higher states of consciousness, beyond the OOBE state. Most people don't realise that nature has giving us the most powerful tool imaginable to transport us into the greater reality and the higher states of consciousness which are our dreams. How we have managed to neglect this for so long is beyond comprehension. We have invented all sorts of occult tricks, religions, prayers etc, but we ignored what nature put on our plates right in front of our eyes, our dreams. If we begin to work with our dreams we are halfway there. The awakening towards Lucid Dreams and OOBEs is an important step on our path to realise our heritage, but they are only the beginning, they are baby steps towards our much greater destiny of our human evolution. What I am working on at the moment are some of the sign posts to this our destiny. I will use my more recent OOBEs since my last book came out in order to document and illustrate such a path, but I am still a little way off.

What I find I keep documented on this website. My next book though will be a different story.

Question: Is life after death a theory, or do you believe it can be scientifically proven at some point?

Jurgen: To me Life after Death is an experience not a theory. The more you experience this state of consciousness which transcends physical awareness the less you need to be convinced that life after death is a reality. I no longer even feel inclined to convince anybody because it has become such an obvious fact to me and it is up to